subscribe: Posts | Comments

Norway killer’s hatred of the ‘Sex and the City’ lifestyle that ‘feminises’ men

40 comments

Summary of story from the Daily Beast, July 24, 2011

The Norwegian killer, Anders Behring Breivik, blamed feminism and the “Sex in the City lifestyle” of “empowered women” for emasculating men in Europe.

A terror of feminisation haunts the words of the 32-year-old behind the Norwegian massacres which left more than 90 people dead, writes Michelle Goldberg who adds that ”rarely has the connection between sexual anxiety and right-wing nationalism been made quite so clear” as in his 1,500-page manifesto.

Described in the Daily Telegraph as a “mummy’s boy”  Breivik writes that he was feminised “to a certain degree” by  his “super-liberal, matriarchal” upbringing:

“The female manipulation of males has been institutionalised during the last decades and is a partial cause of the feminisation of men in Europe,” he writes.

Goldberg outlines the way that Breivik  blames empowered women for his own isolation, saying that he recoils from the “destructive and suicidal Sex and the City lifestyle (modern feminism, sexual revolution)…

“In that setting, men are not men anymore, but metro sexual and emotional beings that are there to serve the purpose as a never-criticising soul mate to the new age feminist woman goddess”.

Breivik’s manifesto echoes ideas frequently present in Islamophobic literature that feminism is destroying the West and creating a space for Islamism.

According to Breivik, the West must re-establish patriarchal structures and teach women their place. This, says Goldberg, is a politics of emasculation.

“Breivik’s hatred of women rivals his hatred of Islam, and is intimately linked to it. Some reports have suggested that during his rampage on Utoya, he targeted the most beautiful girl first. This was about sex even more than religion.”

  1. Jane Osmond says:

    This guy is obviously clinically insane – I don’t think we can take anything he says seriously.

    • I know the above is a summary of what he has been saying but I know I’ve seen similar sentiments expressed online from men. Not all of them, obviously, and not that I’d expect them to do something like this. And you know he’s going to have people agreeing with what he’s said while trying to minimise what he’s done.

    • socialistfeminist says:

      I disagree-he has not been diagnosed with any mental illness + it is really unfair to associate poor victims of szchioprenia or bi-polar disorder(and victims of the mental health services) with the killer. The mentally ill as a social group are statistically 4 times more likely to be a victim rather than perpetrater of violence. It is to easy to paint a politically motivated killer as ‘mad’ in fact as patriarchy is the norm is ideas are actually widespread but we hope will not be ‘normal’ in our daughter’s lifetimes

      • Jane Osmond says:

        Fair comment – I retract my comment about this guy being mentally ill as it does slur those who suffer with mental illness. Perhaps I really mean that this guy’s ranting is too stupid to take seriously.

  2. Am reading Susan Faludi’s Terror Dream – which describes how ‘respected’ journalists/commentators turned on feminists and feminism in the wake of 9/11. The sort of things that were being said about women, feminism and emasculation then had quite a few echoes in this manifesto..

    • Makes sense, he’d have just been an adult in 2001, 9/11 had an effect on a wide range of people and ideas.

      Book noted too, for the growing reading list!

    • BarryMayor says:

      Feminism (not to be confused with women in general) turned on men and boys many years ago. Although they achieved legal equality (which is only fair and proper) years ago and, in some cases, legal superiority, the movement continues to identify areas where superiority can be achieved and male interests can be minimized or rationalized as irrelevant because of the “patriarchy.”

  3. vicki wharton says:

    You know Barry – most women think of themselves as equal to men and therefore are feminists – whether they call themselves by the word that has been so debased by selective reporting from the media and your unreferenced remarks or not. As for men blaming women for all the world’s evils as with the Norwegian serial killer’s ‘philosophy’, it’s been happening since the birth of Christianity and Eve – with Adam unable to take responsibility of his biting of the apple – she made me do it yada yada yada. This guy has simply taken that scapegoating to a whole different level.

    • BarryMayor says:

      Vicki – the difference between us is that I actually respect women. If a group of woman claims to not be a a feminist (as the vast majority of women do), unlike you, I actually respect their choice and don’t presume that they are so unintelligent that they don’t know what they believe and think.

      Secondly, I don’t have a general disdain for men or women so as to generalize them as you have done, claiming that “men” (as in all men or men in general rather than “some men”) have been “blaming women for ALL the world’s evils.”

      It’s not media bias or selective reporting that turns most women away from feminism. It’s that real world negative view of males in general, such as you just expressed, that does it.

      • “I represent the norm, don’t listen to those silly feminists. I’m better and right. You know that you prefer men to being autonomous and valued as humans. Listen to me, not those silly straw women, I mean, feminists.” That about right, Barry?

      • vicki wharton says:

        Once again Barry, you have missed the point again spectacularly and your generalisation about most women not calling themselves feminists is just that – a generalisation that appears to be made up since you don’t reference a survey/report or some such substantive evidence. Likewise, I use the term men to refer to the male dominated cultural institutions such as the church was and still is to some extent. Since there is no substantive male organisation fighting for women’s rights with large numbers of male members (excuse the pun), I can only presume that most men are largely indifferent to women’s equality if not actively hostile (like yourself Barry). Your generalisations about feminism and clear ignorance about the variety of philosophical approaches that fall under the umbrella of ‘feminism’ shows a lack of knowledge on the subject that is typical of the quality of debate put up by chauvinists like yourself. Do some reading on the subject before you choose to shoot it down as without knowledge, you have precious little to contribute on an intellectual level and nothing to contribute on an emotional one.

        • Barry Mayor says:

          Vicki – I do agree with one thing you said. Almost all women want equality. So, it would seem all would heartily embrace being part of the feminist movement. For a fact, the women’s movement, going back well over 100 years, has done much good in obtaining equal (and in some cases) superior rights for women.

          Unlike you, I have made it very clear that women and men should have equal rights and neither deserves open hostility and anger, simply based on their gender, as you continue to express. (Feel free to quote even one statement of mine that is against women in general) I am anti-gender bias and discrimination, which is why I steer clear of both the MRA and feminist movements.

          According to a CBSNews poll from 2005:

          “Even though many women value the achievements the women’s movement has made, most are reluctant to call themselves a feminist outright. Just a quarter of women say they consider themselves a feminist; 70 percent do not. These numbers have changed little over the years.”

          When given the dictionary definition, most women would claim the moniker feminist. The problem is, their reality of the movement does not match the definition. The reason? Feminists themselves.

          For example, you used the term “men” in derogatory way with no qualifiers, including the church. So, it’s far too late to pretend you didn’t use that as a general derogatory remark about men. Such negative generalizations and view of males is precisely why the average woman does not wish to ID with the movement.

          • vicki wharton says:

            I would claim that the average woman doesn’t want to claim the term feminist due to the constant media portrayal of them as hairy armed extremists who eat men’s entrails for breakfast. As for being derogatory about men in general I certainly am suspect of the majority now with their almost ubiqitous use of abusive and very violent pornography with its constant referencing of women as bitches, whores, c**ts,gashes and the like – none of them terms of respect – and the portrayal of double anal, double entry, gagging, choking, punching, raping, spitting sex as something women enjoy. There is not a single disclaimer on any of this material showing that most ‘porn’ stars are recruited when they are below the age of consent to appear in ‘barely legal’ or incest movies and then are churned through the industry, being coerced/incentivised to do more and more violent and degrading things which are then broadcast without any riders explaining how these women came to be appearing in an industry that portrays violence towards females as good. The domestic violence threads of various parental sites such as netmums and mumsnet are full of women scared shitless by fathers that are now choking them/hitting them or raping them within the boundaries of a supposedly ‘loving’ relationship. And this is how 1 in 3 ‘normal’ guys now treats his wife/mother of his children. I simply don’t hear any men addressing this huge problem, and the only people willing to talk about it are ‘feminists’ meeting in their hairy groups. I identify with the people willing to do something about a human rights travesty rather than ignore it in the hope its really not as bad as it might look if you took a good look at it. That reminds me too much of the behaviour of the Germans back in the 30s whose main defence later on was ‘I didn’t know’ about the Holocaust. My grandmother was German and left the country in 1936 and said ‘yes they did know’, just some chose to ignore it because it didn’t effect them. I believe most men are doing the same thing with violence against women and I don’t think highly of them for it.

          • Barry Mayor says:

            Vicki – at least you somewhat admit to having a negative view of males in general. That is the second accurate statement you made.

            As for the rest, I have no earthly idea what you are talking about. You may want to put a porn filter on your computer.

            What is your evidence for your statement that “And this is how 1 in 3 ‘normal’ guys now treats his wife/mother of his children.”

            Answer: You have none because there is none. It’s not true. Perhaps you tell yourself this stuff to justify your hatred of males. Again, your way of thinking is what keeps normal women away from feminism.

  4. Wilhelm Anders says:

    @ Halla : “And you know he’s going to have people agreeing with what he’s said while trying to minimise what he’s done.”
    -
    You are so right…
    The rollback of the nanny state and feminist entitlements,
    has just started.

    • So you agree with him then Wilhelm?

    • vicki wharton says:

      Here come the trolls – galloping over the bridge, the sound of their little cloven hooves echoing down the street, falling over themselves in their eagerness to decry things they know nothing about … or when the sickness really comes over them, to simply pick up a gun or a bomb and shut down everyone else’s right to do things differently forever.

  5. BarryMayor says:

     Halla – the norm are men who want fairness and equality but aren’t anti the opposite sex.  

    Feminists and MRA’s, by definition, in theory, have noble causes.   However, when that average man or woman realizes that the MRA and feminist agendas and outlooks (in reality) tend to also be anti-female and anti-male respectively, they decide they don’t want to be associated – although they still want equality and fairness.
      
    If the MRA’s and feminists both TRULY want nothing but fairness and equality, they would join forces and work TOGETHER.  When the rest of us see the feminists and MRA’s working together, not in opposition to each other – THEN, we’ll all join in and happily ID.  In the mean time, we’ll stay here where it’s safe and care equally about the welfare of the opposite sex, not just our own. 

    • Have you informed mankind that you now speak for all of them, Barry? You’re still making broad sweeps with your brush here and not providing any actual information. I could just as well assert that the norm is men who hate other men and I would be as authoritative as you are here. Also as usual your comments seem more concerned with doing down feminism than doing anything useful. Your “I tried to be nice” attitude is rather grating and comes across as another expression of contempt for women – your tactic of attempting to split off feminists from ‘ordinary’ women doesn’t wash with me, either.

      • vicki wharton says:

        I think Barry is as out of touch with men as he is with women Halla – if most men weren’t anti the opposite sex I don’t think they would be jerking themselves off to storyboards where they clamour for more and more violence and degradation of the women involved. Its a little like jerking yourself off to videos of black people being hit and then saying that it doesn’t make you a racist. The fact that these men need and ask for the hitting of women in the video is a very large giveaway of their internal world. By the way, I didn’t miss Barry either – but I use him as an exercise machine to work out my thoughts on.

        • Yes, same here. Now I’m away for a few days, so no doubt I’ll get some more exercise when I return.

      • Barry Mayor says:

        Halla – I don’t claim to represent all mankind. However, it is an established fact that the vast majority of women do not ID as feminists and even fewer men – despite most or all of us wanting equality and fairness. Per CBSNews.

        One reason is well illustrated by your and vicki’s outrageous broad condemnation of “most men.”

        Sadly, her comments (and your concurrence) reflect a view of men that is not uncommon within feminism about males. She says that “MOST men” (not a “few men”, not “some men”, rather “MOST men”) are not only ‘anti-female’ but “MOST men” (according to her) are “jerking themselves off to storyboards where they clamour for more and more violence and degradation of the women.”

        Your response?

        “Vicki – quality, thanks. I agree.”

        THAT open hostility toward male is a major reason why the vast majority of women (according to CBSNews) reject being called feminists, and why feminism’s reputation never gets any better.

        • vicki wharton says:

          Barry – surveyors of public opinion/habits have been lamenting the fact that it is increasingly difficult to find men to survey that do not use internet porn. The last two UK surveys put men’s use of internet porn (those that had viewed porn in the last month) at 98%. Internet porn is violent towards women – fact. 98% of men look at internet porn on a monthly basis fact. 2 + 2 is 4, however much you may seek to deny it. It’s not hostile to men to name some of their behaviour – or only hostile if you come from a community that traditionally disguises or denies it. I think you do both Barry, and then slag off the whistleblower in an effort to shut her up. I am not hostile to men per se, but I am hostile to behaviour that allows a person to pay to see another person being verbally abused/hit/hurt/forced to do something against their will/humiliated and think that’s okay.

          • matarij says:

            Hi Vicki – you are wasting your time engaging with this bloke. He is just using this site to take out his bitterness against women. He is not interested in having a rational debate. Best ignored.

          • Barry Mayor says:

            According to netmums (which you cite as an authority), 76% of women watch porn. So, why don’t you say the same hateful things about women that you do about men?

            “I am not hostile to men per se”

            That’s obviously not true, based on your own written statements. Your hateful attitude and statements about “men” and “most men” (as you put it) speaks for itself, and is why feminism maintains its anti-male reputation decade after decade.

  6. (can’t reply in the subthread again etc.)

    Vicki – quality, thanks. I agree. I’m also more saddened that men with their own agenda are again trying to use something horrific like the terrorist attacks in Norway as some sort of proof of something. Please note, all: I mean two specific men here. Just in case you think I’m generalising or blaming them all.

  7. I hate Sex and the City too but would never shoot anyone. This guy is just hateful and homicidal.

  8. SFGreek says:

    “Jane, you ignorant slut.” Sorry, couldn’t help it.

    As someone who’s working on a PhD in Gender Theory, I can say that the media misrepresentation of feminism is part of the reason feminism is still relevant. When Obama wears a shirt that says, “This is what a feminist looks like”, I know he gets it. As someone who teaches Women’s Studies, I begin by asking people what they think a feminist is, and if they consider themselves feminist. Despite the class being an option, the answer to the latter is about 80% “no”, and the answer to the former is “hairy-legged man-haters marching in the street” (not that there’s anything wrong with that). After going through a few key texts from the past 40 years, students are surprised to learn that feminism is about equality and fairness in general–not just to women, but to everyone.

    You can’t work towards equality and fairness for one section of the population unless you’re working towards extending it to everyone. It’s why feminist theory understand the inextricable relationships between race, class, gender, and sexuality. It’s not anyone’s superiority, it’s about respect, equal opportunity, and challenging power norms that privilege some over others. If it’s not about that, you’re doing it wrong.

    So saying you’re a feminist is like saying you’re not a racist, or you’re not homophobic–or, at least you’re trying hard not to be. Saying you’re not a feminist either means you’re not for equality (and the fact is, we’re nowhere near it, and the reasons are complex), or you don’t understand what feminism today is all about. Can’t NOT be a feminist if you support equality.

    • BarryMayor says:

      The above comment from a Women’s Studies (feminism) professor is more evidence that feminism’s relative unpopularity, and the reason that 80% of women refuse to be identified with it is feminism itself, not the media’s misrepresentation of it.

      If the definition of feminism and the reality matched, women would be jumping at the chance to ID as feminists rather than running from it. Sadly, that is not the case.

      To illustrate the real reason that the WS professor finds 80% of women don’t ID as feminists: in the middle of the first paragraph, in referring to feminists, she states that there is “nothing wrong with” “hairy legged man-haters.” In case you were wondering what they teach in Women’s Studies. . .

      Non-feminists have a very different belief system. Specifically, non-feminists believe there IS something wrong with hating men, hairy-legged or not. As long as hating men is tolerated and approved within feminism, the vast majority of women will continue to reject it.

      • you know why there are women who hate men? check out the rates of women who are raped and assaulted by men. And check out why they commit these crimes. and then look at how these crimes have been covered up and condoned by churches and by the state. and then look at modern courts and the sentences these men get when found guilty.
        then ask yourself, if you were a victim, how could you go from fear to love… would there be a stage of hate? how long would that last?
        it is very easy to judge, it is much harder to take a moment, swallow your pride and look from a different persepective.

        • I can’t believe the level of trolling this post has received. Talk about a masterclass in derailing. One man has managed to divert a potentially fascinating discussion about the connections between Islamophobia and misogyny, and make it all about himself. The link between negative media portrayals of feminism and a public unwillingness to identify as feminist is so obvious as to be almost uninteresting. I don’t think we should waste any more energy on someone who is plainly just using our valuable comment space to wage his own personal vendetta against women.

          • Jane Osmond says:

            I couldn’t agree more Hannah.

          • BarryMayor says:

            “I don’t think we should waste any more energy on someone who is plainly just using our valuable comment space to wage his own personal vendetta against women.”

            Please quote one negative statement I have made about women in general. One.

            Of course, you can’t – because I’ve made no such statements. In fact, I am the one person here who has spoken against hate and prejudice based on gender.

            On the other hand, this thread (not the media) is a case in point as to why feminism continues be known for misandry. Here, feminists openly advocate and jusitfy hating men in general. How do the other feminists react? They support and defend it. Sad but not surprising.

          • Barry, as the moderator you will have noticed that I have published all your comments. However, the discussion is going round in circles and therefore going nowhere. As we do want to have a constructive debate on here, rather than a series of kneejerk reactions, I may have to discontinue publishing them.

          • BarryMayor says:

            Allison, thank you for publishing my comments (although you did miss one :-) ), along with everyone else’s
            I particularly appreciate the fact that you published them despite evidently disagreeing. Some moderators only publish comments they agree with so as to keep their sites clear of opposing viewpoints, which is within their rights.

            Would you mind quoting or citing an example from one or more of my comments that you feel were “knee-jerk” reactions?

          • Sorry for missing one – it was completely unintentional. I don’t particularly want to get into a debate with you about which comments were or were not “kneejerk reactions”, not least because I have a feeling you’d then want me to define “kneejerk reactions”. In a sense, Barry, this reply is fairly typical of the sort of debate in which you engage. It’s very wearing as it’s not constructive. No matter what someone says, you have a stock answer which is usually just to say the opposite (that’s why I asked the black/white question the other day). I’m therefore asking you to change the way you debate. If you feel you can’t/won’t/shouldn’t (or just don’t know what I’m talking about) then I think we should probably just agree to disagree and you find another site to comment on. Thanks.

      • SFGreek says:

        This is what happens when someone’s agenda is more important than careful reading with an open mind. I’m sorry to feed the hijacker, but I will clarify a couple of points, and move on. I don’t expect Barry to budge, as he’s not interested in facts, nor learning about something he obviously knows little about.

        First, I’m not a professor. Second, the class is VERY popular, and my point was specifically that media representation has meant that women were interested in the class, but were under the impression that they were not feminists because of this misrepresentation. After a few classes of learning what feminism actually is, they realised they’re all feminists, because they’re all interested in equality for everyone. To clarify, since this seems so difficult for one person to understand: in fact, they realised that they are all feminists. And to the person, they love the class.

        btw, the truth is, I made a Seinfeld joke, then forgot about the man-hating part. You’ve got to be a total idiot to think that feminists hate men. Men hate women, as evidenced by the blatant misogyny in this thread, a helluva lot more than women of any kind hate men, at least in my (fairly extensive) experience.

  9. I’m conflicted. I would like to make another run at this (now that the smoke has cleared a bit on the comments), figuring out what this man was trying to say, but I also really don’t want to spend any time or attention on him and his abhorrent behaviour.

    • Wesley Harris says:

      That particular man was quite a loon, and his views do NOT represent the views that most men have. But, masculinity is different in different cultures, and while I find the idea of another man holding my hand or rubbing my leg rather non heterosexual, I do find that such things are quite common AND masculine in Eastern cultures.
      Such things DO change from place to place.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>